?

Log in

No account? Create an account

the last one | the next one

607. Now I am worried.

(I know it's not Friday night, when these things are supposed to happen, but I was away.)

I loved the episode. Jared and Jensen continue to blow me away and make me love Sam and Dean more than ever, the bald shiny-headed guys are both a lot of fun, and our favourite bad boy's involvement is a great twist if for no other reason than we get more of him. \o/


... Unfortunately, the shape of the story gave me a severe case of the Mehs. A progenitor makes a deal, and something is done to Sam without his knowledge or consent. It calls into question Sam's humanity and identity, and the brothers need to fix it.

Really, Sera? I mean, for reelz? We're going back to S1 in story, as well as feel? I never much trusted Kripke's story instincts, but he relentlessly drove it forward, and that's not nothing. He did not like going backwards; it was always, "Done that already. Let's go see what's over here!" Of course, for a long time I've trusted Sera's feel for this story even less than Kripke's, and yes, that's saying something. But I figured, like the US presidency, like what has happened until now on SPN, the weight and resistance of the whole production and the voices in it would keep things more or less on the same track with one or two wobbles. I always got the sense from Kripke that he knew the story wasn't just his, it belonged to all of them; Sera gives off a much more proprietary vibe, particularly with Sam, like it all belonged to her in the first place ... and now she's going to do the story again, only this time she's gonna do Sam right. Because, what, we didn't explore the "came back not 100% pure Sam" enough?

And there was so, so much character potential built up by the end of S5. SO much. Sam finally being his own man, dealing with the consequences of his choices (rather than dealing with the consequences of other people's choices), what happens to people in the wake of the apocalypse and the many-faceted sacrifices they made to fight it. What that has turned them into, in the everyday business of what they used to do, without any extra supernatural surgery performed on who they are.

It's depressing, too, because it locks Sam into the particular role of the victim. One he overcame in Swan Song. And this is why I look askance at Sera; I think she likes victim!Sam just a little bit too much to let him keep the grown up victory of last season. It keeps him Special. And a little bit more her plaything. When Dean becomes monstrous, it's because of his choice. Granted, it was a sucky choice – torture or keep being tortured – but it was his choice. Sam allowing himself to be possessed, and to overcome that possession, was a huge, huge step forward. That's where we should be. But instead, he just gets violated all over again. Like it doesn't matter what he achieves, he can't keep his very self – not just his circumstances – from being at the mercy of the PTB. He won't ever be allowed to grow up.

So, anyway. I don't complain much about SPN, so I don't know if I did it right. And, hey, I'm onboard. Barring some ridiculously bad decisions by Show, I'm with them until the end. But it's not so I can see how it will turn out. And there's a little bit more dread of where Sera's going to take all this – not that it will be painful, but that it will be uninteresting.

Maybe I'm over-reacting. If anyone's got any happy up-sides, I'd really like to hear them. I'll even try not to argue it all into the ground, or be all entitled!fangirl tantrumming about how Show Is Ruining My Show!!1!!!!!1!!! I need just a little help with the love, here. Please oh please?

Comments

( 24 speakses — have a speak )
tahirire
Nov. 7th, 2010 11:47 pm (UTC)
Oh, don't worry. I threw this tantrum last week when I saw the promo, only I threw it to blacklid over skype and we screamed at each other for a few hours and then I took a week to calm down and now I feel all better and a lot more optimistic.

Which is why you should always watch the promos.
themonkeytwin
Nov. 8th, 2010 01:56 am (UTC)
Okay, but what made you more optimistic? Just the passage of time? I mean, there's still good stuff going on in the story, and whatever, but it just ... GAH! I'm even fairly calm. I just have Doubts. And that makes me Sad. If it were just a one-episode thing, I could get over it. But it's a whole-season thing. It's a Showrunner thing. I'm going to be reminded of it all the time. That's hard to get over. >:[

Plus I can't scream at blacklid. Maybe that's why I don't watch promos....
blacklid
Nov. 8th, 2010 04:05 pm (UTC)
SCREAMERS IS A MOVIE, YO
You are totally allowed to scream at me and I don't say that to everyone; that's what the little Skype button on my LJ is FOR.
themonkeytwin
Nov. 9th, 2010 03:27 am (UTC)
Re: SCREAMERS IS A MOVIE, YO
There's a whatnow? ... Ooh. Heheheh. I shall use that with the utmost responsibility and respect.
tahirire
Nov. 8th, 2010 04:08 pm (UTC)
Oh, please. You can scream at blacklid anytime. LOL.

Honestly? I just trust that other people involved are looking out for Sam and Dean better than I ever could. Show hasn't let me down so far - and I'm all for seeing the original ending because omg how cool is it we get both - BUT, I have demanded a 7nth season in which there is NO Sam v Dean conflict and all they do it kick everything's ass that gets in their way, rid the world of evil, and ride off into the sunset with their girls at their sides because we all deserve that by now, dammit.
themonkeytwin
Nov. 9th, 2010 04:20 am (UTC)
Oh alright then. Screamage shall commence.

I agree with you up to a point. Like I said, on track with a couple of wobbles – that's what I'm still hoping for. But the balance was right. Sera and Ben balanced each other. And I have no way of judging how significant that imbalance will become.

Okay, so ... WE'RE gonna write S7?

About time. Let's do it.
tahirire
Nov. 9th, 2010 05:17 am (UTC)
Oh, I don't mean Ben.

I mean like how Jensen, who never ever complains EVER, told everyone in Chicago like 2 months ago that he sat down with Sera and had a meeting and begged her to 'give Sam his soul back because this isn't working' without any regard whatsoever to the fact that he was spoiling the crap out of everyone sitting there at the time.

You know, people that care.

S7? HA. We wrote S5, where have you been? ;)
themonkeytwin
Nov. 9th, 2010 05:37 am (UTC)
Well, I didn't mean only Sera and Ben, but that was one example. The structure, and all the voices in it, was vaguely balanced and overseen by someone who at least understood that the story belonged to ALL of them.

And, yes, I put a LOT of trust in Jensen, and in Jared, too, although ... you know. Jensen. Of all the instincts on Show, he's the one I'd bank on. If we still had Kim too, I wouldn't worry for a second.

The question being, did SITTING DOWN AND BEGGING work? And at what cost? These kinds of squabbles can escalate like a mofo.

So ... yup, still worried.

BUT. I love you guys. And Jensen. And Jared. And Jim. Even Mitch. You can keep Misha, though, the place is getting cluttered around here and he spoils the all-denim theme I'm going for. XD
tahirire
Nov. 9th, 2010 05:42 am (UTC)
LOL. But I don't want Misha!! *shoves him back over*

I'm working on the review for this one. I do have actual thoughts, but I'm writing a tag first, because ... well, because I'd rather write the tag first. ;)
themonkeytwin
Nov. 9th, 2010 04:06 pm (UTC)
*stuffs Misha in a closet with some toy race cars*

Yay tag! :)
blacklid
Nov. 8th, 2010 04:13 pm (UTC)
Really, Sera?
REALLLLY.

I mean, for reelz?
FOR REELZ. THIS IS THE HALF OF THE STORY THAT GOT HACKED OUT OF SEASON FIVE TO MAKE ROOM FOR SEASON SIX AND IS ACTUALLY STILL KRIP'S FAMILY CARNIVAL OF DOOM BUT WITH MORE NAKED SAM? YES.

We're going back to S1 in story, as well as feel?
YES, MORE MONSTERS. NO, THIS IS GOING TO BE MUCH DARKER. MUCH. MUCH. DARKER. DARTH VADER DARKER.

Because, what, we didn't explore the "came back not 100% pure Sam" enough?
FANDOM HAD FUN IMAGINING WHY. NOW THEY ARE GOING TO TELL YOU FOR REEELZ. ALSO, READ THE GRAPHIC NOVELS, DAMMIT. ESPECIALLY BEGINNING'S END. IT HELPS.

Please oh please?
SAY 'MOTHER MAY I'.
blacklid
Nov. 8th, 2010 04:18 pm (UTC)
(P.S. Sam wants to talk to you.)
themonkeytwin
Nov. 9th, 2010 03:39 am (UTC)
(Sam isn't Sam is Sam is partly stuck in a hole. So he can wait his turn.)
blacklid
Nov. 9th, 2010 03:33 pm (UTC)
Sam still has the use of his lips.
themonkeytwin
Nov. 9th, 2010 03:38 am (UTC)
I THINK YOUR CAPSLOCK IS BROKEN FYI IN CASE YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT IT'S EASY TO MISS SOMETIMES HI.

Really, half the S5 story? But which part? The character arc stuff or the family-type stuff? Because once your character has achieved something, and you've brought closure, don't go and tell the same story of achievement all over again. I don't give a crap if there's added monsters. FAIL.

Darth Vader wasn't so dark. He was just cranky. He was a walking novelty condom, it'd get on anyone's nerves, especially since you just know that all the Death Star employees who aren't getting force-choked are calling that behind his back and making jokes about autoerotic asphixiation.

I CAN'T READ THE NOVELS I DON'T HAVE TIME AND DAMNIT TELL THE STORY IN THE DAMN SHOW. Or we do it for you. Heheheh.

Isn't this comfy? I feel like we're getting to know one another.
blacklid
Nov. 9th, 2010 03:32 pm (UTC)
I'M SORRY I THOUGHT WE WERE SCREAMING HI. *AHEM*

The plot that they stripped off from the original story to put here is the stuff about John and Mary and the boy's lineage. They are just now breaking the surface of that with 607. The fleshing out of that with the return of Samuel and the demon subplot was a new idea brought in by Sera's team as a setup for Krip's reveal. The monsters are just a metaphor for the hunters... the whole concept of becoming what you hate and dealing with "heroes" who aren't, like the line from Dark Knight. I would leave the specific quote I mean, but you're better off re-watching the whole thing since Dark Vader is just Lucky the Leprechaun as a joystick. LOL

Here it is, in a nutshell: we stopped part of the story to throw an Apocalypse party. What we find out now will by no means discount what the boys have accomplished on a personal level... but it WILL destroy it on a world level. It's about still pushing on when you have given and lost everything for the very people calling you a monster. Because this year, the real monsters are the hunters. Everything is getting turned on its head, inside out, upside down, caught in a mirror. "BUT LOOK AT IT THIS WAY" is the whole point.

The reason the graphic novels are important is because those are episodes that never would have been filmed. It was a way for Kripke to flesh out John's story. Andrew and Dan (who wrote 604 and 607) also wrote Beginning's End with Kripke, and it has plot points in it that are very relevant to what's going on now, especially with Sam. It takes, like, 2 hours to read the whole thing. SERIOUSLY. YOU HAVE NO EXCUSE.

*makes popcorn* I REALLY WISH MS WORD WOULD STOP HELPING ME SPELL.

Edited at 2010-11-09 03:45 pm (UTC)
themonkeytwin
Nov. 9th, 2010 04:18 pm (UTC)
OH "SCREAMING" YOU SHOULD HAVE SAID I'M STILL GETTING THE HANG OF THINGS AROUND HERE HI.

Everything you listed is fine and dandy and I'm interested and it's new (ish) and that's fine. I'm not saying nothing's new. I'm just saying that every single part of that can be explored (and probably better) without the screwing over of Sam by someone else again. (And, if JENSEN is saying they can't make the soul thing work, IT DOESN'T WORK.)

ALSO I DON'T HAVE THE NOVELS. *chinhands* You can read them to me. I smell popcorn. AND THEN WE CAN DO MAKEOVERS AND HAVE SPN MARATHONS. :D

INORITE? MS Word can suck it.
bitterlimetwist
Nov. 8th, 2010 08:01 pm (UTC)
Here's how I made myself feel better [my initial reaction was exactly the same as yours]. Sam would be acting this way even if he'd only figuratively lost his soul, right? So it doesn't really change one of the ideas Show is playing with this season; that the lives they live, the things they sometimes have to do, could turn them into soulless killers. [I'm trying to decide if this is denial. If it is, try it, it works.] And we certainly haven't gone back to the earlier dynamic of Dean being in charge, despite how many times he says it in the episode - everything Sam does makes it clear this isn't the case [Sam even gets the are-you-with-me-give'em-hell speech at the end that's usually reserved for Dean.] So I think the character development from s5 remains intact. And while I can't argue it isn't a spin on something we've seen before, I think there are enough elements there to overcome some misgivings. And it is Show after all, and this season has been extra twisty (and dark and awesome) I think, with so many reveals coming pretty early, so I wouldn't be surprised if it went someplace unexpected. *shrugs* Did that help? Feel free to demolish any or all of this.
themonkeytwin
Nov. 9th, 2010 04:42 am (UTC)
I agree up to a point. I think the ideas (soulless killer etc) are interesting enough, and the character development is probably largely intact (although how do you really tell, if a character doesn't have a soul?), and one thing I am over the moon about is that the relationship dynamic continues to evolve. Between Jared and Jensen, I trust that element implicitly. They've worked with much worse than this, and sustained it for the entire run of Show. They will not let Sam and Dean down.

But at the same time, it's important to me that the state they're in comes mostly from the consequences of their choices – especially in light of that being the whole point of the last five years. Otherwise you simply strip their choices of meaning. If you made Sam soulless because that was the only way he could get out of the cage, or that was the deal offered him, or whatever, great! That actually means something.

Put it this way. Luke Skywalker has just finished burning his father's body, he's at an Ewok party and trying to find an attractive woman who isn't his sister, and you come up to him and tell him his grandfather was killed by a Sith lord is a Sith lord and that Luke has to go and face him and do battle or something otherwise freedom and the Force and whatever are going to be in a bad way. Okay, yes, he'll go do that. And there will be some interesting things happen. But is that a story really worth telling? Especially when there are other, more interesting stories that haven't been told yet?

I am so sorry. I said I wouldn't argue. You definitely helped, but more in the alleviating of woes than the situation! I agree with you that there's enough there to hold our interest, to be worth watching, and I'm glad you pointed that out. But it's made me distrust the hands it's in. I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt when there WAS doubt.

Anyhow. I will be thankful for what we've already been given and look for the good in what's coming. And you guys will help with that. So thankyou :)
bitterlimetwist
Nov. 10th, 2010 07:22 pm (UTC)
"..I'm glad you pointed that out. But it's made me distrust the hands it's in. I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt when there WAS doubt."

Oh God, are you telling me I made it worse? Man, I need to shut up and just leave these things to blacklid & tahirire.

"And, if JENSEN is saying they can't make the soul thing work, IT DOESN'T WORK."

Well, that certainly doesn't sound good. Now I'm worried. Wait, no, I'm sure it's all been fixed. *lalala can't hear you*
themonkeytwin
Nov. 10th, 2010 10:51 pm (UTC)
Ah! Don't worry, that's just my poor self-editing. It should read "But THE WHOLE THING has made me distrust the hands it's in." The benefit of the doubt thing was about Sera being a showrunner Show deserves.... Ah, textual clarity. It's a wonderful thing.

So, no, you made things better. Stay. Except that now I'VE made it worse for you! Oh, bother.

:D
blacklid
Nov. 11th, 2010 01:18 am (UTC)
First of all? I LOVE YOUR ICON.


Second of all, I totally just left that whole, BUT JENSEN IS SAYING IT DOESN'T WORK thing out there like a screaming bunny. Have you ever heard a bunny scream? It's like hearing a fox scream, but with more Alan Cumming.

... hmm. I think all I will add is this... remember when Jensen called down and said DONT EVER DO THIS TO ME AGAIN and OMG THIS IS CRAY CRAY (but without the l33t) and told us all how NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE something was?

We got THE END.

So stop worrying. It actually just means above average awesome is headed our way. :)
themonkeytwin
Nov. 11th, 2010 06:09 am (UTC)
I LOVE THIS ICON TOO It's ripped off a demotivator I saw somewhere (I think Nick Holmes's tumblr site) and I always felt a little bit bad about that but you know.

Is it like lambs screaming? Because there's a movie about that.

It actually just means above average awesome is headed our way.

*grump grump grump*

Well, ALRIGHT FINE I'LL STOP WORRYING. (I think I'm getting the hang of the screaming.) Since I don't know the details enough to be able to compare and contrast the two situations, I shall sit on my hands and be brave and not worry and hope for the best, and keep my expectations (in both directions) under control. I promise that whatever happens there'll be no I Told You Sos from me. :)
themonkeytwin
Nov. 19th, 2010 09:56 pm (UTC)
Oh, wait. Is there an icon etiquette where if someone says they love your icon, you're supposed to tell them if it's grokable or not? I'm noticing a trend. THIS is the sort of thing they should be telling us in "things you didn't know about lj" or whatever that is. The unspoken norms of lj interfacing.

Er – so, if you wish, grok away. ??
( 24 speakses — have a speak )

what's me

schiff
themonkeytwin
themonkeytwin

what's tagged

what's on

January 2016
S M T W T F S
     12
3456789
10111213141516
17181920212223
24252627282930
31      
Powered by LiveJournal.com
Designed by Terri McAllister